Ritual System Update Discussion!

Thank you to everyone that worked on these updates. I have to say that I am now considering celestial as a way to go for another character.

Well Done
 
Jesse- Your intimate knowledge of Twilight suggests you've either seen the movies or read the books. Either way. Welcome. Which shade of eye liner would you prefer? (Black, I assume?)

MS- Yeah, I hear you, and I was all for a little more nerfing, but this outcome was a substantial compromise from both sides of the fence, and the new rit is still a significant improvement; as the APL of the game continues to grow the threat level for even the biggest construct will be way higher than it was. I know that doesn't address your point, specifically, but any resemblance of movement towards parity with non-golem users seems to indirectly improve on the disparity you've brought up.

Kelsey- Were Celestial casters awesome and then nerfed, before now being awesome again, in your opinion? Also, I felt that these changes also improved things for the earth side too. Do you feel Celestialists benefit in an unbalancing manner?
 
mikestrauss said:
First, I think Empowerment is problematic. Since it is at discretion of plot, it has a high potential to be unfair and unbalanced.
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Plot already has super-discretionary powers of being able to dictate the success/failure/other results of any ritual. All this does is say "it's definitely cooler".
 
Yeah, the current quicksilver soldier come in at 127 points, including 4 points spent outside policy on extra body up to 200, and buying dodges instead of the phases on that card. So yes, pretty hefty downgrade.
 
For the Ritual Modification effects that require a certain formal level above the difficulty, are they intended to be used only if your personal formal level is high enough, or can they be used based on the assistance of secondary casters, including those using formal link? Reading it, it seems like it's personal only, but I felt the point deserved clarification.
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As stated in the update:
The prerequisite for each type of manipulation must be met individually on a scroll to Primary caster basis. Formal Link cannot be used to meet the prerequisite for any of these manipulations.
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It is based soley on the primary casters levels.
 
Deadlands said:
Kelsey- Were Celestial casters awesome and then nerfed, before now being awesome again, in your opinion? Also, I felt that these changes also improved things for the earth side too. Do you feel Celestialists benefit in an unbalancing manner?
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I believe that celestial casters got hit with the love bat. I believe that Earth casters got some love too, but all these changes and some more recent past ones make me want to forge into a celestial scholar from an earth one. I'd love to see some new rits and abilities for high level earth formalists.

Overall though AMAZING job on the changes. I am happy to see such amazing stuff come out.
 
Deadlands said:
Do you feel Celestialists benefit in an unbalancing manner?
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I'll be honest: I would have liked to have seen Healer's touch buffed in a similar way. Healer's Touch and Elemental Burst are the two skills that have the change to define what those schools of magic are about and parity between those skills would have been a solid advancement.

As it is NOW Healer's Touch is even less attractive than previous.

Stephen
 
The standard golems will still exist, the new rules are specifically for golems PCs and NPCs create to store themselves in.
 
I was told the regular golem ritual (not master one) will create all the golems we know and love.

Magic To hit bone golem's not going anywhere. I was sad to see Magic to Hit wasn't on the buy list. Plenty of caster nullification stuff was, but not so much in the fighter nullification stuff (silver to hit, magic to hit etc)

New golem rules are neat though because having caster customized ones will lead to neat situations where you have to learn the button for each golem you fight.
 
Celestial got more attention because it needed more attention than earth.

Earth casters should not fret, they should just be patient for a while like the celestial casters were.

Empowerment - Yep. You might get something cooler from one rit marshal than another. just like one plot line might be cooler or more detailed than another. Just like one NPC might play a better monster than the next guy. Really you get a benefit either way, and if your complaint is that your free cookie is not big enough, you can go -metal fastener having a tapered shank with a helical thread, and topped with a slotted head, driven into wood or the like by rotating- (Mike I'm not aiming that at you)

Golems - Are significantly less powerful with the new system. I don't really want to rehash the various arguments that went into getting the proposal to where it currently is and passed so I wont. But trust me on that one, its a big improvement overall.
 
Figment said:
Very excited!! Thanks for everyone's hard work on this... I know I appreciate it! :) And I was thinking of retiring soonish well that idea has now flown out of the window! Sad that I spent build on Earth Magic now .... Been playing for about 8 years and you all just changed my game dramatically! Can't thank you enough!

-Kelly
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I hope we get to forge, you are not the only one that would have spend build differently :( .
 
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
Seems unlikely, since there were no major build bought skill changes outside of the rit stuff.
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The rit stuff is major. People would have went differently if this was available to them, for example might have not built a pyramid so wide and instead gone with more formals. Kelly admitted that she would not have spent build on earth. I know some people that might have gone straight C too.
 
Yes, but there were no changes to affect any fighter or rogue skills, or spells. Major ritual changes are still only changes to a portion of the game that many characters are not directly connected to.
 
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
Yes, but there were no changes to affect any fighter or rogue skills, or spells. Major ritual changes are still only changes to a portion of the game that many characters are not directly connected to.
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I guess you never thought of playing a C caster...
 
On the contrary.

My point is that the ritual updates aren't the same kind of super, game-wide changes which resulted in the last global free forge. I could see allowing scholars specifically, or any character with a current rank of formal a limited opportunity to spend their build a little differently, but I really doubt that the owners were looking to have a bunch of people go from rogue to scholar to take advantage of the new elemental burst rules.
 
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