Current events and Useful information.

[Tantarus]

So here we go again. First off I want to say I have talked with the Elder Dryads and they assure me we can talk freely as long as it is short distances. So we don't have to be worried about being overheard by Nahui or the Lord of Echos.

Here are 2 of the more readable tablets found last gathering.



The bold is are things I added as my best guess.

"The Guardian of Ghosts has other motives
he's Destined to destroy the _____ caldera
cannot live side by side with the spirits, as his
ghosts will mulitply until they overwhelm us all
just as they have done to the other civilizations
before us. The Scientist maybe sadistic, but he
can't lie. He says destroying the Guardian will
__ cause his minions to end as well.

Now we embark upon the hardest
Battle we have ever fought."

So if people had not figured it out by now. The valley is effectively the mouth of a volcano. Which is going wipe us all out sometime this year. We must find a way to break the cycle and avert this disaster.



This one is pretty straight forward. Though it leads me to believe we made a mistake in changing the tablets. Changing them keeps them changed from how it should be... Perhaps we should just destroy them to try and set things right? I think as soon as we gather we should attempt to go back to the cave and destroy both tablets. Perhaps that will put things back to how it was before.

We heard of a large metal amulet or necklace that allows you to see into the spirit world somehow at the last gathering. And it was spotted on some Nahui. I believe finding this item is important. It could yield important information. If someone who saw it could tell us where and when that would be helpful. Or if someone sees it again. It is a high priority for us to get and find out what clues it holds.

I also believe we should attempt to reacquire the Sheath from the Nahui using a Seek the Whole ritual to locate it. Mostly to avoid them doing the same. They are too willing to use it. We know they made themselves Corrupt on purpose to be able to survive the fire based death that happens to the valley every 1000 years. As well as put the druids to sleep and make the Draxian rod.

The dagger is the catalyst that created the whole valley. It is likely we need to find a way to destroy it. I am open to suggestions. Because right now dropping it in lava underneath us, back to what created it, is my only guess. And not likely to succeed.

I still maintain that killing the lord of echos the final time is dangerous. We don't know what the scholars motives are. He could even be the one that released him for all we know. And he has a stock pile of Planar Gate scrolls by his own admittance. That said I am not sure we have options if he keeps coming after us. Take into account the Nahui said if we don't finish him they will. If people have ideas or options I am listening.

That is all I have information wise this time around. If I missed anything important or that I don't know about. Speak up. The time for sharing and unity is here if we are to survive the end of the year.

Sir Tantarus

 

[norman b]

Sir Tantarus, I saw the bright steel necklace on the Nahui. It was while exploring the great cave complex that lead to the peace circle as well as the earth circle we opened up near the tavern with explosives. I saw the one again i believe the night we opened it and explored it. That Nahui may not travel far from that underground complex? It may be wise to start there if nothing than to get the earth circle secured.

-Karzel

 

[Draven]

Tantarus,

If the dagger helped create these Echoes, has anyone attempted to kill an Echo with it?

 

[Slice]

Though it leads me to believe we made a mistake in changing the tablets. Changing them keeps them changed from how it should be... Perhaps we should just destroy them to try and set things right? I think as soon as we gather we should attempt to go back to the cave and destroy both tablets. Perhaps that will put things back to how it was before.

I think this proposition is rather ballsy, unless you know a great deal more than I do about the tablets. For instance, how sure are you that the second stones statements are in reference to the tablets, and not history or the course of the cycles? Also, there is clearly a chunk missing from the stone, so although we are reading that as a fluent sentence, it is less clear to me how much of that stone is actually missing. Thirdly, lets say it is referencing the tablets - how do you know that destroying the tablets will restart anything? Do you have a lead on how to create new ones? Sometimes destruction is merely that...destruction.

We heard of a large metal amulet or necklace that allows you to see into the spirit world somehow at the last gathering. It is a high priority for us to get and find out what clues it holds.

I completely agree. We will keep our eye out for it. Going into the catacombs is sadly unlikely to be successful as a way to retrieve it. Less because of the danger factor and more because it is warded, and the cave structure makes it impossible to put a circle around and DM. If we are real lucky, being this close to town, that corrupt will be out and about and we can catch him in a small group. If not, I can think of a couple ways we might be able to lure that group out (but he would still have to be there).

I also believe we should attempt to reacquire the Sheath from the Nahui using a Seek the Whole ritual to locate it.

I have been looking for this rit for some time. I have spoken with the Dryad in regards to any old caches which may have contained one and am awaiting a response. I have one other potential guess as to a possible possessor, but that one is a bit more complicated and purely theoretical....so we will see. Out of curiousity, do you know the specifics of the ritual? I have heard a rumor, that while "seeking the whole" you must be carrying the other piece....do you know if this is true? If it is, well, it will make that encounter very interesting.....no matter which side casts the ritual.

I am with you that I think this item will require being destroyed. My gut says we use its own power and the intent of many to destroy it. The ritual itself is somewhat symbolic and I believe that the spirit that is sacrificed (obliterated) only need be partially related to the cause. For example if we could sacrifice the Nahui shaman (likely related to who caused many of the problems in the first place) and the intent of undoing the daggers creation/existence, I think we might have success. One might think the Lord of Echoes might be a good target for this as well, but I have such a long list of reasons why that is a bad idea, that I will spare you. Feel free to ask me in person though, it anyone was thinking about it.

I still maintain that killing the lord of echos the final time is dangerous.

The truth is, in most aspects, I have let go of this line of thinking. I do not disagree with you though, there are uncertainties here, some of which I am not a fan of. But the reality is, if the Lord of Echoes shows up with a vengeance to kill us all (like he has three times now), we really have no other choice, but to kill him. Capturing a being as powerful as him is not only much more difficult than killing him, but then we have to store him and protect his corpse - for eternity or until "fixed." With every major encounter with this guy between 3 and 9 people have resurrected. I can pretty much guarantee that capturing him will cost a minimum of twice that in lives....and that does not include the probable future risk of him getting free. It also does not take into account what would happen if we pull the ghost leader out of the picture without triggering the second in command to step up. A bunch of uncontrolled rapidly multiplying ghosts is no fun either. In fact, that sort of chaos is even less predictable, and therefor dangerous. So, is killing the Lord of Echoes risky....Yep. But unless someone has a reliable lead on "fixing" the Lord of Echoes, killing him is really our only true option. Both the 1st stone above and the Scholar himself note he can't lie....lets hope that is true, because his declared intent is not a bad one.

If the dagger helped create these Echoes, has anyone attempted to kill an Echo with it?

Zeth, the dagger is really less of a weapon, and more of a catalyst. I mean yes I suspect someone could stab someone with it, but its power lies in its use during a much larger ritual, not in the act of shivving someone in the neck with it. So I guess my question for you would be, what would you be attempting to discover or achieve from such an encounter?

These are my thoughts and concerns on the matters brought up here. Tantarus is right, now is the time for sharing and discussion. Decisions are rapidly approaching, and when those times come, there will likely be little time for talk...that time has already started.

- Dragoon Slice

 

[Draven]

Hrm.

The vision that we saw, would it not indicate that a connection exists between the Echoes and the Dagger?

So, I merely suggested that perhaps the dagger may also have some effect on them as well, that hasn't been discovered. An effect that might be useful.

I'm simply guessing towards paths that may not have been looked at.

 

[Slice]

The vision that we saw, would it not indicate that a connection exists between the Echoes and the Dagger?

I do agree, based on the vision they are historically connected. I guess I just don't understand what you are proposing to do about it. How would you suggest one goes about further investigating your question? Are you suggesting someone use the catalyst dagger or sheath as a weapon?

 

[Avaran]

Hrm.

The vision that we saw, would it not indicate that a connection exists between the Echoes and the Dagger?

So, I merely suggested that perhaps the dagger may also have some effect on them as well, that hasn't been discovered. An effect that might be useful.

I'm simply guessing towards paths that may not have been looked at.

Zeth,

The best way to deal with an Echo is with a Banish spell.

There are two distinct kinds of echos, one more abundant and weaker, the other stronger. The stronger ones cannot be summoned back from their own plane, and thus that is the best way to deal with them until we can work out a more permanent solution.

If I am remembering my information correctly, the weaker ones are basically created from energy (ghosts) that are already in the valley; the Lord of Echoes can summon and control them, but they are far weaker and easier to deal with; ultimately dealing with the weaker ones so individuals can't or won't come back doesn't gain much since the Lord of Echoes has a seemingly endless supply and can simply summon more.

-Sir Avaran

 

[Alavatar]

I also believe we should attempt to reacquire the Sheath from the Nahui using a Seek the Whole ritual to locate it.

I have been looking for this rit for some time. I have spoken with the Dryad in regards to any old caches which may have contained one and am awaiting a response. I have one other potential guess as to a possible possessor, but that one is a bit more complicated and purely theoretical....so we will see. Out of curiousity, do you know the specifics of the ritual? I have heard a rumor, that while "seeking the whole" you must be carrying the other piece....do you know if this is true? If it is, well, it will make that encounter very interesting.....no matter which side casts the ritual.

- Dragoon Slice

While I am not in Tarndale and likely won't be in the near future due to helping the dryads, but I believe I have left a Seek the Whole scroll with Kasuni and Tantarus. To answer your question, you only need a part of the object at the time of casting and the ritual will tell you approximate direction and distance, in a straight line, the largest piece is from your current position. The effect lasts for 5 days, so if the piece being sought moves significantly the caster may be aware of the movement.

Seek the Whole can be Spellcrafted and produce the same effect for the same 5 days for just one reagent. I recommend doing that instead of expending the ritual scroll.

Regards,
Alavatar

 

[Tantarus]

I think this proposition is rather ballsy, unless you know a great deal more than I do about the tablets. For instance, how sure are you that the second stones statements are in reference to the tablets, and not history or the course of the cycles? Also, there is clearly a chunk missing from the stone, so although we are reading that as a fluent sentence, it is less clear to me how much of that stone is actually missing. Thirdly, lets say it is referencing the tablets - how do you know that destroying the tablets will restart anything? Do you have a lead on how to create new ones? Sometimes destruction is merely that...destruction.

I am pretty sure it is referring to them as we know they where changed four or five times already as the old marks where on them and the golems we fought. I don't know for sure it will do anything. But we are facing a lava bath so all options must be considered. The whole point is to not have tablets changing war and peace, so no need to remake them. The hope is this puts them back to what they where.

I have been looking for this rit for some time. I have spoken with the Dryad in regards to any old caches which may have contained one and am awaiting a response. I have one other potential guess as to a possible possessor, but that one is a bit more complicated and purely theoretical....so we will see. Out of curiousity, do you know the specifics of the ritual? I have heard a rumor, that while "seeking the whole" you must be carrying the other piece....do you know if this is true? If it is, well, it will make that encounter very interesting.....no matter which side casts the ritual.

My understanding is you only need the piece during the casting. That said I don't know for sure. As for the ritual I believe Alavatar or the Brotherhood of the Star has it and the catalyst. I will try and get it from him before he leaves.

I am with you that I think this item will require being destroyed. My gut says we use its own power and the intent of many to destroy it. The ritual itself is somewhat symbolic and I believe that the spirit that is sacrificed (obliterated) only need be partially related to the cause. For example if we could sacrifice the Nahui shaman (likely related to who caused many of the problems in the first place) and the intent of undoing the daggers creation/existence, I think we might have success.

I was really hoping to use Gary to power the dagger with just this intent in mind. But I think that is no longer and option for 2 reasons. Elyrion will not be here to cast the Oblit. And the only Oblit/catalyst set I know of in the valley has been taken by the gypsies out of our reach. All the attempts to get it from them have been unanswered.

The truth is, in most aspects, I have let go of this line of thinking. I do not disagree with you though, there are uncertainties here, some of which I am not a fan of. But the reality is, if the Lord of Echoes shows up with a vengeance to kill us all (like he has three times now), we really have no other choice, but to kill him.

This parallels my line of thought as well. I find it fairly likely I will have to finish him at the next opportunity. Also Gary explained to me if we don't do it soon they will.

If the dagger helped create these Echoes, has anyone attempted to kill an Echo with it?

I will echo what Slice said. The dagger is a tool more then a weapon. That said no we have not tried it. I was going to just to see what happens next time I get the chance but it has not come up.

 

[Draven]

I seem to have created a bit of confusion with my question.


I'll try to clarify. I know that Banish works on Echoes. My question wasn't directed towards using it as a weapon, exactly.

The dagger is capable of trapping life essence, yes? Using that to fuel this magic that opens and closes portals? It is connected to the Echoes, yes? I was simply curious as to whether or not it would also affect them in some way, if it were used on them with a killing blow. Perhaps even trap them and allow the dagger to be used to stop this destruction or, at the very least, create a way for people to leave the valley.

That's all I was thinking.

 

[masumi08]

Though I have only just come into town, I was there for the vision. If the sheath and the dagger were to be joined together could it possibly "fix" the Lord of Echos? I just thought I'd throw that out there.

-Kade Amador

 

[Avaran]

It is connected to the Echoes, yes? I was simply curious as to whether or not it would also affect them in some way, if it were used on them with a killing blow. Perhaps even trap them and allow the dagger to be used to stop this destruction or, at the very least, create a way for people to leave the valley.

That's all I was thinking.

Zeth,

The dagger being "connected" to the Echoes is a guess, at best, as far as I can tell. I've seen nor heard nothing that would suggest that is the case. What lead you to that conclusion?

Using a spirit to power the dagger on anyone or anything other than who/what we know to be worthy of such a punishment is as far as I would see the dagger used (if even then). Using it on Echoes/Spirits that we know nothing about should not be on the table; it makes us no better than the Corrupt, and certainly no better than the leader of echoes.

-Sir Avaran

 

[Draven]

As for what led me to that conclusion, it was the vision. Did it not appear that the echoes were created as a...defense against the creation of the War golems? That this was done by the use of the dagger? The holding it is the Prime, the first created, and the one near him to be the scholar? Such a transformation, I would guess, could certainly leave a lingering connection.

But...perhaps it is my fear for what is to come that has clouded my judgment. You are right, that regardless of what these Echoes are, they shouldn't be used in such a way. I apologize for suggesting such a thing.

 

[Shin]

Pardon me for being so late to the game, I have not been sleeping of late, so I just found this discussion.

I think there seems to be a genuine consensus concerning the Dagger's destruction. To do so almost necessitates both parts, however we should be cautious in re-sheathing the blade once its other half is reacquired. In the initial brief, sheathing the blade is the ritual act of closing the cycle and using its power. Or at least, that is my speculative memory. That being said, as likely as it may be to charge it to destroy it, my intuition tells me that its unmaking will be most successful at the origin of its creation, The Heart of the Valley.

I know its been thought, but yet to be echoed, that the cycle is systemic from the Heart of the Valley growing to the breaking point. Similarly the Dagger is forged from this Heart. The connection there is not coincidence. So while throwing it back into the Heart/Laval might not work, it might require a more ritualistic component involving something of that nature.

The Sheath however had a different origin, if my memory serves from the vision. The Dagger was the element of Death and War, the Sheath was the element of Peace, the two united effectively 'stopped' the cycle of the originator's lives through some unknown means of magic. So the answer to one part of the Dagger and Sheath may not be the answer to both.

If that is the case, and the Sheath is tied to a separate factor, my memory seems to say an element of Peace, then it perhaps has a different focal point for its destruction. This is purely speculative.

I completely agree. We will keep our eye out for it. Going into the catacombs is sadly unlikely to be successful as a way to retrieve it. Less because of the danger factor and more because it is warded, and the cave structure makes it impossible to put a circle around and DM. If we are real lucky, being this close to town, that corrupt will be out and about and we can catch him in a small group. If not, I can think of a couple ways we might be able to lure that group out (but he would still have to be there).

I actually spoke to the Dryads, specifically Amanita on this, recently as well as last gathering. She said the Corrupt have been using Wizard Locks at times and bluffing their way around a fight with the appearance of a ward. This might not be the case in the caves, but I know that we did not try to dispel the 'Wards'. It might be worth a shot. If they drop, we have a means to dig them out. If they don't, we lose less in the face of confirming rather than assuming.

Though I have only just come into town, I was there for the vision. If the sheath and the dagger were to be joined together could it possibly "fix" the Lord of Echos? I just thought I'd throw that out there.

Kade, The Dagger's 'inert' state is together, sheathed. This is done so by discharging the Tools built up energy when it is re-sheathed, so in doing so it catalyzes whatever power its absorbed. If it is unexpected or undirected, it could have extreme consequences. Fixing the Lord of Echoes seems to be through his destruction, as that is what he craves. Admittedly, that is what he may very well deserve considering the insanity he has put himself and other echoes through. There is speculation, and it seems to fit, that the Lord of Echoes was the lead Ritualist in the last moment of the vision, desperately trying to preserve his people. If this is the case, then it was through the use of the Tool.

After confirming with Avaran, we are very well aware of the Valley's leylines, they gather in nexus' of power and we have in the past had to do very specific things there. So the location of where something of this magnitude is done, most likely matters greatly. Finding those location(s) is the other half of the equation in destroying this Tool.

Akin did mention after the last gather that, even though this Tool is the most pertinent one, with what seems some of the most notable effects, he speculated and inferred that there were other Tools of that nature throughout the Valley, most likely hidden or lost. Was anyone else there during this discussion? If so, please confirm or dispute. There was a relevant point he was trying to make, likely about the cycle of the Valley and its relation to any one of these Tool artifacts.

The dagger is capable of trapping life essence, yes? Using that to fuel this magic that opens and closes portals? It is connected to the Echoes, yes? I was simply curious as to whether or not it would also affect them in some way, if it were used on them with a killing blow. Perhaps even trap them and allow the dagger to be used to stop this destruction or, at the very least, create a way for people to leave the valley.

It absolutely is yes. However there are two factors Im aware of. The first is that the Echoes, primarily the grey echoes fade when struck down almost instantly. The Black ones do persist but not for long. I have not yet killing blow-ed any, as Banishing them is extremely effective instead. The second factor is a moral one, Zeth. These Echoes, Ghosts and otherwise are not our enemy even if we have to face them. Harnessing them is tantamount to what the ancient's of this valley did and what the Nahui have done as well. Trapping them in the dagger makes us no better than any of them. We need to fight and live with our honor, die with it when needs be. Not set it aside for convenience.

As to using it on the Lord of Echoes... I think it's been said, that this shouldn't be on the table. I know I've voiced it before; entertaining any and all ideas, but when I think about how the 'would be' Lord of Echoes used it to preserve himself and his people, I am not sure killing him with it again will have the desired effect. Destroying the Dagger, as that is the focus point of their 'curse', however, likely will.

Though it leads me to believe we made a mistake in changing the tablets. Changing them keeps them changed from how it should be... Perhaps we should just destroy them to try and set things right? I think as soon as we gather we should attempt to go back to the cave and destroy both tablets. Perhaps that will put things back to how it was before.

A different question: How did their original incarnation come about and why? Obviously the 'Peace' Spirit had a vested interest in their changing, but to what end? Continual existence? There is a theoretical balance struck between the Ghosts of both Peace and War, yes? Or rather, there was. What if this Tablet is simply part of the effect that the Dagger user at the End of the vision created to ensure that "They will call us by many different names through the generations, but we will endure in one form or another"? Is it too much of a straight forward abstraction to believe that the Peace and War spirits/Ghosts (synonymous at this point, but distinct from the Echoes) to believe that the two tribes were pushed into a continuous loop in a pocket realm (Like the Realm of Echoes), and that their manifestation as Ghosts is the most basic form of their existence?

Further more, I know we discussed it in a previous dream, but, The Echoes create Grey and Black Echoes from what again? I was under an impression that Ghosts - as we've seen them manifest in the Valley, become grey echoes when the Lord of Echoes wills it, while Black echoes must come through a Planar Gate. This to my knowledge has never been directly seen, so I treat it with suspect. The Scholar said that Echoes gain a form of sentience or understanding over time, an eventual process. That he was the second in relation to the Lord of Echoes. If this is the case, perhaps Ghosts of both war and peace eventually translate into Echoes with a much more whole persona, over vast periods of time. That would help explain the connection between Ghosts, Grey Echoes and Black Echoes in part.

The relevancy is that if the Ghosts are somehow dissipated, then perhaps the host of echoes will be similarly diminished.

If that is the case, destroying the tablets might be viable. That beside said, Slice makes the point - once you undo you can not go back and with precious little information it is a massive gamble.

We heard of a large metal amulet or necklace that allows you to see into the spirit world somehow at the last gathering. It is a high priority for us to get and find out what clues it holds.

Where did this information come from? I've heard it a few places but without a source it makes it hard to verify.

Dragoon Squire Shin


Edit: Pardon me Zeth, I did not hear Sir Avaran's words before my dreaming thoughts were complete. No need to rehash previously deliberated issues.

 

[norman b]

Squire Shin, the necklace was mentioned in letters from the guys who were charging for the earth circle in a farmers barn. I read the letters then confirmed the existence as i saw the necklace earlier in the day. It apparently allows peopleto see the ghosts that wander in the valley that we cannot see. Or at least that is what i had gathered from the letters.

 

[Shin]

Did the letters specify its use apart from seeing Spirits in the Valley?

It certainly is a puzzle piece we've lacked, but I suppose the question is how big of a piece is it. Only way to find out is to mug the Nahui wearing it, I suppose.

 

[Tantarus]

It was pretty abstract if I recall. I only read them quickly and not fully myself. It seems like a way to gain more information so we should follow it up.

 

[Shin]

Sir Tantarus, If memory serves, weren't there another 2 or so tablets or partial tablets from previous civilizations? Where any recovered?
Were any of these translated? Or were they too destroyed for appropriate translation. Even if it's late in the hour, there might be additional information in account.

Might it be worth using a Vision or Lore on those tablets to try to take a crack at deciphering them?

 

[Tantarus]

They where in totally foreign languages. Luke has them currently and he is planning on casting Lore or Visions on them the first night of the coming gathering. Hopefully it will give us some good information.

 

[norman b]

The letters were explicit. The necklace allow the wearer to see the ghosts.