Courting...Larp Style

Burnbunny

Burnbunny

Novice
Hi all,

So a really strange question about the Social norms in the game. Working only from a History background, I was wondering...can Squires and Knights and Barons...you know the Nobles. Can they marry or court lower station people? So if I was a Knight of Ealdormere could I court or get married to a Squire or commoner?
Also if a Knight, marries a Duke for example, do they rise in station?

Anyone?
 
Well, in this chapter at least, there have already been a number of relative nobodies that became knights... including an NPC kobold. We have Barons sharing the same meal with farmers. I don't think we actually have much in the way of limiting social norms of that sort, but that would need to be one of the higher up's call.
 
So far as I have seen- yes its acceptable between higher and lower ranking individuals in general. BUT- the thing floating around In-Game (not sure where it came from) is that it has to be the higher-stationed person innitiateing (for it to be "proper") . Its not official, and its not in any books, but makes enough sense to me in propriety terms for what we are working with (basically a fairytale setting).

As for a raise in station upon marriage... unconfirmed. No Idea. Historically, depending on where you're from, titles are patrilineal and conferred to the spouse. In many places, it was (still is, in some countries) only the men that could make the call on any of that. Women were typically not allowed to initiate relationships at all, especially at higher familial status and it was at the discretion of their father/closest male relatives who they would marry in wich case they would never be allowed with a lower-class guy since that wouldn't be beneficial to her family politically or financially (understanding women were a comodity to strengthen these things )

BUT! we arent working with something thats quite like that though so I guess we should bug jesse to nail that down for this game's "kingdom".

And the kobold did not become a knight. It might have become a squire- but honestly it only appeared that it was just nolonger a slave. Im not sure who else you are reffering to as haveing become a knight, because only 1 person that I know of was actually knighted in-game. Other people came-in as knights as part of a pre-game arrangement,... thingy... and others are going through squireships first that may take a while.
 
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Burnbunny - There's a section of the rulebook that's all about the world of Fortannis (the overarching world Alliance is set in), covering discrimination, government, nobility, etc. It starts on page 29. Might help with some of your questions. :)

Some relevant quotes:
  • "Remember that we are creating a world here as we want it to be and not how it really was, so don't be picky about historical inaccuracies. We have people wearing costumes that would have been worn from 600 to 1600; we have weapons that did not exist during certain periods; we have laws and systems of government that are modern in concept.... Always keep in mind that the Alliance LARP is not a re-creation game, but a fantasy game."
  • "There is no discrimination allowed against players in our game. You cannot be denied a position as a noble, a member of the army or any plot-sponsored group on the basis of your out-of-game race, religion, gender, age (as long as you're old enough to play), handicap, sexual orientation, or country of origin."
  • "This does not mean that the in-game world is an egalitarian paradise. There are countries and people who will discriminate against your in-game race, for instance." (For example: a mystic wood elf hating all dark elves, an elf thinking wylderkin are dumb beasts, etc.)
  • "Our present-day concept of democracy is a foreign idea to the people of Fortannis. There may be some places that have a very limited version of democracy--for example, the nobles are allowed to vote on certain issues--but that is the extent of it. Even peasants who revolt against unfair nobles never think to replace their government with a democracy, but only to replace it with a fairer monarch."
  • "Most Alliance games will take place in a form of a medieval feudal society. This means that there is a strongly observed hierarchy. This is not a system of equality, but a system of duty to one's superior in exchange for support."
  • (The book at this point goes into the nobility structure, titles, vassals, ranks, commoners, etc, and explains that somewhere between nobility and commoners are adventurers.)
  • p. 30 Titles and Inheritance: "All noble titles that are obtainable by characters must be earned. Simply because your character history has your father as the duke does not automatically mean that you will become duke. You must first work your way up the chain of command by becoming a squire and then passing the rigorous tests of knighthood. Then, even after you do all of that, you may still be denied being named as heir. There is nothing preventing a nobleperson from naming someone not related to them as their successor. This is not historically accurate, of course, but in our game, you must earn everything, including noble titles."
So, up to the level of Baron/Baroness, marriage would not change your status, because those titles must be earned, as they are obtainable by characters. It's possible the rules are different for Duke/Duchess, King/Queen, etc, but those are not earnable titles for PCs in our game.

(Mind you, this is all going off of the national rulebook. There might be local conventions or calls that are different. Hopefully Jesse will weigh in at some point.)
 
B, The Kobold `Knight` that was referred to showed up one day, an NPC, they were not made a knight at any event. I know A few Tiatarians spoke to her.
 
EDIT: Forget I said anything, didn't realize it was something everyone didn't know yet, sorry!
 
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gyyyaaahh no dont tell us these things! sssshhhhhhhhh!! *flails*

Dani, why do you hate me? y u do this?... I had hopes to be able to investigate this if I found out about it IG x_x;

(not actually mad, just flailing now)
 
Ack, crap, sorry, I was actually just trying to confirm what you had already said, B. ("And the kobold did not become a knight. It might have become a squire- but honestly it only appeared that it was just nolonger a slave.") Didn't realize it was something that... wasn't common knowledge.
 
Jesse was kind enough to meet with a few of us last night over dinner to explain some details about Acarthian noble traditions.

Nobles of all ranks are welcome to marry commoners, and culturally, this happens all the time in Acarthia. Commoners who marry nobles are given the honorary title of Lord or Lady. They do not wear white belts. They do not gain the power and privelege of the nobles who earned title personally. Honorary nobles are not bound to follow the Code of Chivalry. Children of nobles are given these honorary titles of Lord/Lady. Essentially, all a person gets out of that is slightly higher social standing -- really a better seat at the feast table, or good connections to get better box seats at the Acarthian Opera.

The honorary title is always Lord/Lady regardless of the rank of the noble spouse. Marry a knight? The spouse is Lord or Lady. Marry a baron? Lord/Lady. Marry the Duchess? The same.

Those persons who have passed the Tests of Chivalry, and are therefore eligible to hold title on their own may retain their lands and title even in marriage. For example, Baroness Elavir is engaged to marry Sir Eldred. Upon marriage, he can remain a knight, retain his lands, and still be Sir Eldred -- He does not automatically get "downgraded" to Lord Eldred.

If the spouse of a noble has passed the Tests of Chivalry, and is eligible to hold title on their own, the noble can petition their liege for an elevation of the spouse's title. Again using the above example, Baroness Elavir can petition Duchess Tiberion to bestow the title of Baron on Sir Eldred upon their marriage. There is no cultural norm for this, or expectation that it will or will not happen. There is precedent both for these elevations historically in Acarthia, and also lots of nobles whose spouses just took the honorary title of Lord/Lady and called it a day. It's entirely an in-play matter, and depends on the persons and the circumstance.

I hope I captured this accurately from the discussion with Jesse (and that he'll correct me if not), and that this helps shed some light on the initial questions.

Trace Moriarty
 
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