[.11] Channeling Math

[Draven]

I like Channeling in that it feels more like C and E are balanced. It’s not the answer I wanted, but it’s an answer that I can live with.

That being said, the math for Channeling seems off, for XP to Quantity ratio. Channeling is currently out performed dramatically by spell slots, namely Magic/Earth/Chaos Storm and their Lesser variants. Consider that 8 purchases gives you a pool of 200 for 24 XP, where a full column that costs 25 XP will give you the ability to do 230 between a single Storm + Lesser Storm. That’s not even counting the ability to memorize additional Lesser Storms in 6th, 7th, and 8th slots, for an additional 240 points. On top of that, the caster receives the benefit of whatever they memorize in spell slots 1-4.

470 Points plus 4 spells versus 200? It’s not close, really.

While the abilty to use Improved Channeing to enhance the individual packet is definitely cool, I don’t think it really crosses that massive chasm in power.

Recommended fixes: Double the amount someone gets from Channel, to 50 per purchase. I think this actually balances it close to perfectly, since non-augmented Storms can be broken/dispelled, while channels can’t be. So Channels would give a significant, though still lower, amount of healing/damage, and Storms would have more power, but also more vulnerability.

 

[Polare]

The amount per build is balanced around the significant flexibility you get with Channeling as opposed to spells.

For example: Let's say I have 2 6th level Evocation Bolts (30 points each) memorized for a total of 60 damage. Those two spell slots are 6 XP for a scholar. Similarly, 2 purchases of Channeling is the same 6 XP, but only gives 50 damage. However, those two Evocation Bolts are only 2 "packets" during the day. Channeling gives much more sustained capacity throughout the day (10 packets of 5 damage, if you wanted to go that way to emulate the current Wand mechanic) than the Evocation equivalent; there may also be times that those big Evocation spells are overkill. Similarly, there are *many* times where you'd rather heal 5 people for 5 Body Points each than a single heal of 30 Body Points to one target for the same XP cost.

Players who want to specialize in damage over time will do much better with Channeling specialization. Players who want to do big bursts will do better memorizing straight Evocation (or Chaos, er, I mean, Healing). Players who want to have *some* sustained capacity through the day for chip damage without taking too much from their spell columns can do a splash of Channeling.

 

[Draven]

Ehhhhh, I think that works out more at lower levels, but I think the sustained benefits will definitely putter out at upper levels, when PCs can start memorizing multiple Storm spells, which is what I think breaks the concept.

Consider that when a PC starts memorizing Storm spells, their reliance on their other slots immediately drops. A single Storm spell gives a sustained effect all on its own. The result is that the PC will have more slots to lean on than they would have, otherwise.

It’s true that Storm spells may result in wasted potential that wouldn’t be true of Channel, but the output is so significantly different that I feel it is far more likely that someone who Channels is going to run out of packets that someone who opts to be a Storm specialist.

To put my money where my mouth is, a player who is a healing-focused Earth Scholar is going to ask “What gives me the most bang for my buck?”

Assuming maximum healing, a column of Earth spells will give them 9 spells for a total healing of 520. That’s 20.8 Healing per XP with the added benefit of versatility. Channel gives 8.33. That’s such a massive difference that I don’t feel the advantage of divvying it out in small doses really matters all that much, especially at the upper game where you’re going to be dumping large amounts of healing in a short time anyways.

 

[Polare]

That's what Playtesting is for Storms have significant downsides on the field that don't show up when theorycrafting. Being able to move around and/or interrupt your packet barrage with other spells is worth a lot despite the increased overall numbers with Storms, and even Storm Augmentation only gets around one of those limitations. Their total number is high because of those limitations, otherwise there'd be no reason to memorize anything else. Note that the Channeling numbers are much closer if you set Storms aside.

I encourage you (and anyone else interested in comparing this for their characters) to build a character that can try out both in the Playtests and give your feedback!

 

[Draven]

Note that the Channeling numbers are much closer if you set Storms aside.

But you can’t set them aside, Bryan, they’re part of the spell list. While it’s true that I’m theorycrafting, I’m not doing this with zero experience.

I’ll consider testing them during the playtest event.

 

[Polare]

I mean, going by pure theorycrafting, there's basically never a reason to memorize Evocation above 4th level, because from 6th to 8th level you're purely numerically better off memorizing down to Lesser Storm. In actual play, though, I don't expect that to be the case.

We (ARC) do feel that the flexibility of Channeling balances out the raw damage potential, and gives an opportunity for a different specialization / focus than pure spellcasting. Overall playtest feedback might indicate otherwise! Alternatively, it may be a better fit for some characters than others. Someone who just wants to throw constant damage may find that their character concept fits best with say a 2000 point Channeling pool throwing 5s to 20s all day while running around with a small utility spell tree. That's a very different character than the one who goes for lots of columns and mixes Storms with buffs and defenses, but both are interesting concepts.

 

[Tantarus]

With such an important Channeling specific high magic you are kinda forced into a spell tree. Is there any thought on making this a ritual on your body? Or a build skill with a high channeling prereq, like every 50 levels of channeling you can buy a build skill of Higher Manifestation ?

To make the channel style of play easier to do to?

 

[norman b]

Another reason to take channeling is that it's elemental and not a spell. No incant like a spell. So the damage/healing might be lower, but it bypasses reflect spell and spell shield.

 

[Gilwing]

Another reason to take channeling is that it's elemental and not a spell. No incant like a spell. So the damage/healing might be lower, but it bypasses reflect spell and spell shield.

Npcs will have less spell defense/abilities...according to the packet.

 

[Gilwing]

That's what Playtesting is for

I encourage you (and anyone else interested in comparing this for their characters) to build a character that can try out both in the Playtests and give your feedback!

How can we build and play both to test it if the chapter that someone plays in runs only one play test? Are we going to be allowed to switch at the second logistics (I didn't finish reading the packet completly)?

 

[Ruki]

How can we build and play both to test it if the chapter that someone plays in runs only one play test? Are we going to be allowed to switch at the second logistics (I didn't finish reading the packet completly)?

That's a great idea for chapters only doing one playtest.

 

[mythic]

How can we build and play both to test it if the chapter that someone plays in runs only one play test? Are we going to be allowed to switch at the second logistics (I didn't finish reading the packet completly)?

Yes it is in the Playtest packet that you can switch your build at logistics on the second day.

 

[Durnic]

Yes it is in the Playtest packet that you can switch your build at logistics on the second day.

This is actually not true, that was removed in the latest revamp of the 0.11 packet (I originally missed it too and was confused as well). It is still up to the hosting chapter if they will allow the switch of builds, but ARC (and other owners) are recommending that the same build be used for the entire event so we can better see how potential builds will work through two straight Logistics periods.

I know a lot of people here on the West Coast are talking about playing one build in Oregon and another build in Seattle. For those of you that do not have chapters close by, I know this isn't exactly an option. :-/

 

[mythic]

This is actually not true, that was removed in the latest revamp of the 0.11 packet (I originally missed it too and was confused as well). It is still up to the hosting chapter if they will allow the switch of builds, but ARC (and other owners) are recommending that the same build be used for the entire event so we can better see how potential builds will work through two straight Logistics periods.

I know a lot of people here on the West Coast are talking about playing one build in Oregon and another build in Seattle. For those of you that do not have chapters close by, I know this isn't exactly an option. :-/

ah. Nice catch. Calgary is likely running a second playtest as well to allow players to switch it up a bit.

 

[Feldor]

Considering channeling in the context of discussions earlier in this thread, where it was argued that some casters might choose it instead of investing in spell slots.

Should "Formal Magic" instead of requiring a 9th level spell instead follow the pattern of the new skill system, and instead require a number of points of scholarly build? This would allow those casters who focused on channeling and other scholarly skills to skill qualify for it. It seems to take 80 XP to qualify for formal magic as a scholar, or 94 as a spellsword|adept.

 

[Cedric]

In an ideal realm, I'd rather formal magic be treated more like a crafting skill. It's the way you "craft" magic items rather than based off scholarly build myself.

 

[Alkalin3]

In an ideal realm, I'd rather formal magic be treated more like a crafting skill. It's the way you "craft" magic items rather than based off scholarly build myself.

I think large rituals are usually the conclusion to plot lines and formal magic in it's current crafting form isn't useful every logistics period where as potion crafting is. So I don't buy it's a 1:1 but, I certainly think we could get much closer.

It also kind of sucks for people who want to be pure channelers that they can't get access to the no wand high magic.

 

[Ardos]

Storms require you to plant your feet. even if its for less time to complete the storm, how many times have you gotten off several storm casts? anytime an enemy caster says "I blank blank a blank storm" anyone with a weapon heads right for them. you break concentration if you try to use a status effect spell,and you cant burst for more than the 10s. plus you are locked to the flavor on cast number 1, so choose wisely. I think in actual use cases, they both have their reasons.

 

[Durnic]

Storms require you to plant your feet...

The question was about using the high magic that allows the caster to move while using storms.

 

[Draven]

The question was about using the high magic that allows the caster to move while using storms.

I think Ardos’ comment is directed towards the OP, and not towards the ensuing conversation, because, in that context, it makes sense.