Avoiding incorrect inferences due to NPC mistakes

Alex319

Artisan
In the scenario described here, it was a big enough battle that one Confine probably would not have “saved the day.” However, the problem was that I had had four Confines memorized plus several lower-level binding spells, and due to the NPC's mistake I thought that the kobolds we were fighting (they all looked the same) actually could rip Confines, and because of that didn't use any of the binding spells. So the mistake didn't just prevent the one Confine effect, it prevented lots of other effects. (We did end up winning the fight, but it was close - the kobolds were throwing lots of gasses and there were times when almost half the group was incapacitated.)

There are also other ways this could have turned out. If I had used the Confine on another kobold and it couldn't have ripped free, I might have ended up thinking there was something special about the first kobold and altered battle tactics based on that. And after the battle I was considering using downtime actions and other in-game resources to try to investigate how kobolds gained the ability to rip Confines, based on something that wasn't supposed to have happened.

Of course this didn't happen because the Marshal checked the card after the fight and told me, but it seems like in order to avoid being led down the wrong path due to an NPC mistake, it would be necessary to check with Plot after every battle where something unexpected happens. For instance, let's say I'm fighting flame elementals and that rather than being healed by flame, they're being healed by lightning. How can I tell whether this is because there's something unusual IG about these flame elementals (in which case I might try to investigate further IG) or because the NPC got the elements mixed up (in which case I should pretend that I didn't observe that)?

What can players do to avoid these types of situations, and what can Plot do to make this easier for players?

One suggestion might be in these situations is for example, in the case of the kobold who could rip Confines, rather than Plot retconning it as “you never cast the Confine, take your spell back,” retcon it instead as “well, actually, it turns out that these kobolds really are special and can rip Confines, let's put out a hook to go on a cool new adventure to find out how they got that power!”
 
Hello Alex319, One of the roles of the marshals is also to ensure the adventures plays out as planned so that plot is correctly executed. A Marshall will usually not change a character sheet as there may be consequences on the bigger picture. Things that happens during fights or other events do affect the game.
 
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Regarding what players can do: In our chapter, one NPC creature of a kind looks pretty much the same as any other NPC creature of that kind (barring the obvious individual differences between who happens to be playing them; there's just only so much makeup and masks can do for you, you know?), so in scenarios similar to the one described, I'd say it's on players to try whatever tactic failed on that particular one on other creatures you happen to be fighting rather than assume "looks the same, has the same abilities". A sample size of one is bad science. :p

Regarding what Plot can do: I suppose one could make the suggestion to the marshal that whatever happened could make a neat hook and have them pass that idea on to your plot team, but I feel like there's nothing they can really do right then and there while the game is going on; however the marshal rules it is going to be what happened, and the player is just kind of going to have to live with it. Even if you DO convince the marshal to pass the idea on to plot and send in an IBGA about it, I'm not sure what Plot could really do with it besides send out more Kobolds capable of ripping from bindings, which seems like... I don't know, kind of a waste? There are already other creatures that resist or rip from binding that they could send at you, and I feel like adding an entire plot about special Kobolds who are only notable for ripping from bindings would be sort of lackluster to write and participate in.

I'm not a marshal, but that's my thoughts on it.
 
Of course this didn't happen because the Marshal checked the card after the fight and told me, but it seems like in order to avoid being led down the wrong path due to an NPC mistake, it would be necessary to check with Plot after every battle where something unexpected happens. For instance, let's say I'm fighting flame elementals and that rather than being healed by flame, they're being healed by lightning. How can I tell whether this is because there's something unusual IG about these flame elementals (in which case I might try to investigate further IG) or because the NPC got the elements mixed up (in which case I should pretend that I didn't observe that)?

What can players do to avoid these types of situations, and what can Plot do to make this easier for players?

So, mistakes happen. That sucks.

If something -really unexpected- happens, and the person that did the Unexpected was a newer NPC, I'll sometimes wait until after the fight and talk to Plot discreetly and say, "Hey, just fyi, this happened. I just wanted to make sure the thing was legit, and not a player error."

Sometimes The Thing is something that got interpreted incorrectly by the NPC, and sometimes it's a thing that Really Happened. If it was an error, I say, "Hey, no big, just make sure the guy knows the card, yeah?" and I go on my way. If it Really Happened, my eyes usually widen a bit, and I go, "Well, dang. Okay, man. I'm gonna go try to stay alive now. Thanks." I may cry in my bunk a bit, but that's reasonable.

I've been playing LARPs for 16 years now. I was That Guy once. Truth is, there's a lot to gain by keeping things in perspective and reasonable with a game staffed by volunteers. Do your feedback, find the next adventure, and make the story fun for your friends. "Oh man, there I was, fighting these super-strong kobolds....it was scary, bro!" Because, heck, two stories could be told here:

1) The story where an NPC screwed up and ruined a tactic for you and your friends.

2) The story where these ragebolds just didn't give two craps about your Confines, but you still saved the day through perseverance and gumption!

I dunno about you, my friend, but I know which story I'd rather listen to while having a mug and eating my dinner with my buddies.
 
So, mistakes happen. That sucks.
Because, heck, two stories could be told here:

1) The story where an NPC screwed up and ruined a tactic for you and your friends.

2) The story where these ragebolds just didn't give two craps about your Confines, but you still saved the day through perseverance and gumption!

I dunno about you, my friend, but I know which story I'd rather listen to while having a mug and eating my dinner with my buddies.

I agree, and that would be my preferred option. Unfortunately, in this specific example I can't actually tell story (2), because Plot stated that the event would be retconned and that IG, my character never actually cast the Confine.
 
Something to keep in mind that was probably applicable during this battle. While you shouldn't call a hold to check a monster card, if a hold is called for any other reason, it is perfectly reasonable to call for a marshal during the hold and ask the marshal to check the monster card. You described a rather long battle, so I suspect at least a few holds were called during the battle. I know that I can not remember a wave battle that didn't have at least one hold at some point.

Just something to keep in mind.

-MS
 
I can't agree with MikeStrauss' comment there enough. Holds are a great time to check cards if there is something that might be afoot, but make sure that the original reason the hold was called is resolved before presenting your reason.
 
I would say that if the hold was called on the other side of the fight and it so happens that you are near a Marshall and the npc go for it. That way both can be resolved at the same time.
 
I would say that if the hold was called on the other side of the fight and it so happens that you are near a Marshall and the npc go for it. That way both can be resolved at the same time.
Or just ask the NPC sans Marshall to 'Just make sure'. We were all new at one time, we all make mistakes. If the NPC just digs their heels in, then ask for the second set of eyes (Marshall, Plot, experienced NPC).
 
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