Finding weapon mats...

LRWerewolf

Newbie
So I went on a driving spree today and visited five Ace Hardwares, two Lowes, and two Home Depots, and could not find the 5/8" wall pipe insulation anywhere I went. The Lowes and Home Depot both told me their companies just plain don't carry it, and the Aces all pointed out that difference Ace Hardwares have different distributors so have different inventories.

Anyone know of someplace local in Denver that carries this stuff? I was hoping to find some so I could build a staff for tomorrow's fighter practice but so far no luck.
 
Well, staves are a little harder, since you need 1" inner-diameter 5/8" foam for most core types. I know the Ace on 64th at McIntyre carries it most of the time, as well as hit or miss on 1/2 and 3/4" inner-diameter. McGuckins in Boulder usually has most sizes. Otherwise, Trace has a place she always orders from that has much thicker foam that holds up even better.
 
A little confused -- why 1"? I thought the options for PVC cores were 1/2" (for less than a certain length) and 3/4" for longer. Is the 1" PVC required to overcome whipping for a core as long as a staff would be?
 
Sorry, been making these long enough I forget to mention things. Depending on the type of core you use, it may not match what you expect the inner diameter to be on foam. Always bring a sample when buying foam.

For example:
1/2" PVC = between 1/2" and 3/4" on most foams
1/2" cPVC = 1/2" inner-diameter foam
3/4" PVC = 3/4" to 1" foam
3/4" cPVC = 3/4" foam
And so on...

The reason is that the measurements on pipe and foam are INNER diameter. The wall thickness of the pipe then throws everything off.

So if you're using 3/4" PVC (not cPVC on staves...it whips too much) and then adding some strapping tape to take out the last of the whip, you're getting really close to 1" inner-diameter. If you're using a different core type (graphite, kite spar, etc) your mileage may vary.
 
Ahhhh, makes sense now. Thank you for the follow-up. Considering I'll probably buy the PVC wherever I find the foam, I'll definitely have a 'sample' right there to work with. May head over to that Ace before fighter practice and see if I can find the fixings, bring 'em with, and build it there while I have people to look over my shoulder and make sure I do it right.
 
I usually recommend PVC, strapping tape, and indoor/outdoor double-sided carpet tape as the interior of a weapon. Trace likely has even better recommendations as the weapon marshal. I just happen to be watching the web right now. :)
 
Lowes and HomeDepot do not carry the right beige PVC foam at all. Some Ace Hardware locations, like the one at 104th and Federal in Westminster, carry the right stuff. I'd call your local Aces first to check; it's sort of a crapshoot.

Also, it's worth mentioning, LRWerewolf, just make sure that you're aware: Alliance staff fighting rules require that you keep both hands on the centre part of the staff while wielding it. Alliance staff fighting is not like real world martial arts staff fighting. It's a great, cheap blocking weapon, and therefore a great call for Scholars and Artisans in this game -- but put to rest any dreams about what a bad *** weapon staff is in real life because the Alliance version is quite different. Just making sure you know that going in. :)

Trace
 
Yeah, I wish I would have called before driving all over today looking for one someone said usually had some in. Was driving all over town on the way to fighter practice to try to find the right stuff. Found the right STUFF, just not with the needed parameters.

And yes, I'm aware of the limitations on staves. I got a chance to try a short one out today at fighter practice -- was too light for my tastes, too narrow in the grip, and a bit too short, but I found it as comfortable and natural as my old Amtgard staff, and it wasn't hard to adjust to not being allowed to thrust with it as I would have been allowed under the Amtgard rules. Gonna look at various ways to get a better weight and grip before I start building.

A bit of a question on construction though. In various places on the forums I've read posts indicating that even though a staff cannot be used as a thrusting weapon, it was still required to have thrusting tips capping each end. Granted, these posts also came out before the most recent version of the rulebook, which does not seem to lay such a requirement. Just so I can take the correct answer into account when designing my staff -- is it required to have such tips or no?
 
Another thing to keep in mind, PVC might be to flexible to make a decent staff. You can, but it's going ot be pretty heavy and unwieldy. You are much better off with a Fiberglass core for your staff. Feel free to message me on face book (Zach Brooks) and I'd be happy to discuss materials with you and the best ways to get them among our chapter. =)
 
Actually funny enough I went with 3/4" PVC over smaller PVC I like the heavier weight for the staff and used something that big at practice this weekend and really enjoyed it.
 
Good to know=)
 
I'm one of those oddballs who doesn't have a facebook account though...
Does make it more difficult. If you want to Private Message I can give you some other contact information, though a lot of the current materials coordination in the local chapter tends to go through Facebook because of convenience, so that could add some extra difficulty.
 
I can't find anything in version 1.2 of the Alliance Rulebook, or online clarifications, which indicates that staves need to have thrusting tips. As a Weapons Marshal, I would prefer to see them built in to be on the safe side. As they are not required, however, I won't fail a staff for not having them.

Trace Moriarty
Weapons & Safety Marshal
Alliance Denver
 
Last edited:
Just for Reference:

Per Page 81

All weapons which are intended to allow
thrusting must have a thrusting tip. A thrusting
tip consists of at least two inches of open cell
foam padding beyond the end of the pipe insulation.
If the foam tip is too small, opponents
could get hurt with a stiff thrust. If the tip is too
large, it could easily break off or fold over,
making it useless. A thrusting tip may not be
longer than its diameter and should collapse
about half of its length when pressure is applied.

A player may choose to add or not to add
a Waylay Tip to their weapon. This follows the
same rules as a thrusting tip and is put on the
pommel end of the weapon. A weapon without
a Waylay Tip may not be used with the Waylay
skill. Latex weapons follow the same rules—
they may only be used to Waylay if they have a
valid Waylay Tip.

Than per page 68:
Thrusting with a staff is not allowed.

However, as always in full support of Trace, weapons need to be made safe so while thrusting tips are not required by the rules, the closed cell foam should be up higher than the core so it can't be felt by pressing on the end=)
 
Well, I finally planned out my staff and ordered components. Ordered enough to make 4 of them -- figure I'll donate the other three once I get all of 'em to pass weapon inspection.

While I know that no weapons master in their right mind would approve a weapon on its design specs alone, I would appreciate a review of my design spec for any obvious issues.

For the ends, per Traceroo's preference, I've opted to include thrusting ends (even though they're not required nor are staves allowed to thrust), as well as a good bit of overhang. Should make the ends super safe. The design spec is for a 70" staff.

As currently designed the spec is:

Core:
Pipe is 60" length of 3/4" cPVC 400PSI secured to foam with two lengths of double sided carpet tape.

Padding:
2" Wide Thrusting tip -- 3" overhang of noodle (packed with leftover noodle foam) -- 12" of noodle over pipe -- 36" 5/8" wall / 3/4" ID pipe insulation over pipe -- 12" of noodle over pipe -- 3" overhang of noodle (packed with leftover noodle foam) -- 2" Wide Thrusting Tip.

With 4" overhang instead, staff is 72" total vs 70" total.

Diagram below for 70" spec (to scale, 1px = 1/8"):

70inch_staff_spec-png.1119

Key:
Green - Thrusting Tip. 2" length, 4" width (approx)
Orange - Big Boss Fun Noodle. 15" length total, 4" width (approx). 3" overhang.
Brown - Foam Plug (extra material from scrap fun noodle). 3" length (to fill overhang), 3/4" wide.
Beige - 5/8" wall, 3/4" ID pipe insulation. 36" length, 2" total width. This is the 3' grip length.
White - 3/4" cPVC. 60" total length, 3/4" wide (cPVC is measured at OD vs. PVC measured at ID).
Black - Background.

To respec to 72", simply increase the overhang sections each by 1".

I anticipate this design will have a good bit of weight. I consider this desirable in a staff.

Is there anything obvious about this design spec that would give a weapons master cause for concern before I start building?
 

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